I can't get 4:4:4 or RGB to work @ 60Hz with 10 or 12 bits per channel (bpc). I have to run at 30Hz to get "deep colors" or run 60Hz at 8bpc. For hardware, I have a GTX 1080 on Windows 10 (build 1703). The cable is a 4 ft Monster brand HDMI, 27Gbps. All software is up to date as of 10-19-2017. I've carefully followed all of your settings. In short, I have close to the highest end setup. Are you guys actually seeing 4:4:4 and RGB @ 60Hz with 10bpc or 12bpc?
4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 bits requires more bandwidth than HDMI 2.0 can provide, so it is impossible to pass it to the TV without using Display Stream Compression (DSC), which HDMI 2.0 doesn't support. The TV's ports themselves don't have enough bandwidth, regardless of your cable or source. 1080p @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 bits though is very possible. If you tinker with custom resolutions you may be able to get something like 1440p @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 bits or 4k @ 50 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 bits to work.
Can the Direct TV remote be programed for all the basic functions for an LG OLED 65" TV?
Most likely. LG TVs generally use the same IR codes for basic functions (we can control the OLEDs using the LJ5500
's basic remote, for example), so most programmable universal remotes should work with them.
Hi, question about input lag. If an input has a delay of 44ms at 60 frames per second how does that translate to 24 frame material? Because the frames divide by 2.5. Can you test for input lag at 24 frames per second?
24 Hz input lag depends on a lot of different factors, but it will always be much worse than the 60 Hz input lag. We just did a quick measurement of the E7P and Sony X900E's 4k @ 24 Hz input lag:
||24 Hz input lag
||60 Hz input lag
||Input lag difference
The increased input lag of 24 Hz over 60 Hz is remarkably similar between these two TVs, however testing showed that both these TVs were showing true 24 Hz refresh on screen with the full 24 Hz scan time. Some TVs may buffer a frame then send out two 48 Hz frames instead, which will increase the input lag even more. Some TVs may have longer processing input lag on 24 Hz than 60 Hz, and for some TVs 24 Hz may exit game mode entirely. In short there's so many things that could affect 24 Hz input lag, but it will always be much worse than 60 Hz lag.
I just bought an LG OLED B7A 55". Does it have the same picture quality has this TV?
Most likely. All 2016 and 2017 OLEDs we tested had nearly the same picture quality.
I have the 2016 C6
and wondering if there's a good reason upgrade to the E7
No reason, the picture quality is almost identical. The image retention is better, but besides that there are no major differences. We still recommend the B6
if people can find it available. We usually recommend the cheapest OLED because they're all so similar.
Are the EOTF curves included in the review measured with Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast: Low) on or off? Other review sites suggest that engaging Active HDR disables and then curbs tone mapping until roll off becomes necessary due to the TV's limited brightness. Or is it undertracking EOTF even with Active HDR enabled? The LG entries won both the New York and London premium TV shootouts' HDR category earlier this year, which I can't imagine would've been possible with an obviously dim image thanks to failure to track EOTF correctly.
The curve in the review is without Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast Off). This
is the EOTF with Active HDR on, and this
is the EOTF with it off. The EOTF is much better with Active HDR on, but it also did strange things in some scenes like brightening whites and greys while dimming colors. We're going to do a more in depth investigation into Active HDR sometime soon, but our initial impression is that it modifies the content to be different from what the creator intended, so we recommend not using it unless you find HDR too dim.
Thanks for this test! My 2016 OLED65E6P has a noticeable permanent image of an NBC logo and the word "Live" from staying on MSNBC. I have Screen Shift enabled, and use Clear Panel Noise but it doesn't help.
Email response from LG: To give you a heads up, burn in is not covered by our manufacture warranty and repair services may incur service fees. Although coverage may not be provided, LG will stand behind the product by means of extending assistance in ensuring that repair services may be provided. In this regard, we recommend to also check LG authorized service centers in your area.
Thank you for the pictures. It is unfortunate that LG does not cover these issues under its warranty as they can appear with a normal use of the TV.
So I've been thinking of getting the C7
55" OLED by LG or Sony XBR55X900E
55". I hear the X900E
is perfect and almost as good as an OLED. However, I am wanting to know about the life-span and Image Retention of the OLED, and if it could happen to my C7 OLED. From what I been reading, everyone is making the Image Retention sound very bad, which is what is making me hesitant on buying an OLED. I will mainly be using the C7 OLED for movies/casual TV and playing on my PS4 Pro / Xbox. With that said, how long would the life-span be or will I have a problem with Image Retention?
is a very good TV, especially for its price, but it can't compare with the picture quality of an OLED, especially in a dim room. However whether it's worth the exorbitant price is up to you, most people will be more than happy with the X900E. About the burn in, thousands of our readers own OLED TVs, and we have only received about ten reports of permanent burn in. Unfortunately if it does happen LG won't cover it under warranty. We're currently running a long term burn in test on our B6
unit, tested weekly; you can read about it here
. We will be able to make more conclusions about OLED burn in and lifespan after the test has been running for a few months.
Sorry to bother you guys but today I had a day off and I just spent 5 hours to read this thread from page 735 till 768. The thing is: LG fucked up with the firmware bigtime! And this is just one topic in one language (you have many topics like this in dutch/german/italian etc etc and also on different websites). So it is not just one country and one little issue. If you call/e-mail LG, they don’t know shit or they give us some bullshit answers. LG support is like Hell.
We customers pay a lot of money for these OLED’s but LG doesn't care and I think you will agree with me: this has to stop. Most users on this forum are complaining about the following after update 05.30.03:
- No more perfect black anymore -> glow
- Menu is laggy (mostly with 4k input) sometimes also after factory reset
- Loss of contrast
- Banding in some hdr movies
- When in PC MODE: greenish picture in all HDR modes or too dark
- WIFI not working properly anymore (also for c6)
- Bad stuttering with motion
- Causing screen tearing on OSSC (a line multiplier to upscale retro consoles and it outputs 1080p)
- Text is very blurry now with occasional blue/red banding in PC MODE
I also think they can easily reduce the input lag for PC mode (4:4:4) but LG doesn't care. And what about the HDR Game mode, that is way too dim? That’s not okay for a high end tv. I bought this tv for pc gaming, but I can’t enjoy it to the max.
Anyway, the reason I e-mail you guys is because I think you guys are honest, independent and not paid by LG or Sony etc to do a TV review. Many review sites won’t say shit about this, because they get paid by TV companies and I hate that because we customers get screwed. I hope you will investigate this … and I promise you, the community (from av till avs till neogaf till tweakers etc) will love you guys for making an article about this because the b6 is one of the best selling tv’s … even now!
Sorry for this long e-mail but I’m a little upset and want justice ??
Greetings from Holland and keep up the good work! X
Thank you for contacting us regarding this issue, this information may help other readers who are experiencing similar problems.
Can I use BFI + 1080@120hz on x905e? Will it increase input lag?
You can use both the 1080p@120hz input and BFI simultaneously. Input lag remains essentially the same.
I would love to grab a Sony x900E however I am afraid I will regret not grabbing a TV with Dolby Vision. Is this something I should be worried about? If I am watching something that is Dolby Vision will it still take advantage of HDR capabilities?
We still don't consider Dobly Vision to offer a significant advantage over the standard HDR10 presentation. Yes, a Dolby Vision source will simply fall back to a standard HDR10 signal if connected to a non-compatible TV.
To save this calibration, Just press "home"?
Yes, all changes are saved as soon as they are changed.
I have this TV and if I don't enable game mode in the general settings while using a 24p input, using the "PC" label has no effect whatsoever; all special non-game mode settings can be enabled or changed, and input lag isn't reduced. If I use both setting together, the display disables a ton of picture settings (e.g., motion control), and the lag is significantly reduced.
I suspect your input lag timings might not apply for this display as a result. I'm guessing you don't have the display anymore, so you probably can't confirm what I'm saying, but I promise you this is how the display actually works.
Thank you for pointing out this issue about the TV's PC mode with a 24p input. We unfortunately do not have the TV on hand anymore to verify this, but some of our readers might appreciate the information.
Ok, so to ask the question on every Xbox owner's mind... What would be your top 2 recommendations for a TV for the Xbox One X?
For the 4k HDR consoles we recommend TVs with the best HDR Gaming score in their price class, as per our Best HDR Gaming TVs
article. Some standouts are the budget but fantastic TCL P607
and the high end LG OLED C7
What happens on a non-PWM BFI-enabled TV when you reduce the brightness? Is the luminosity reduced or is the 'on time' decreased (and, consequently, the 'off time' increased)? In the last case, this would mean that reducing the brightness on a non-PWM BFI-enabled TV will decrease motion blur even further, as is the case on PWM TVs. I am particularly interested in (non-PWM) Sony TVs, but also in the general case.
We just did a quick BFI test on the Sony X900E
and Samsung MU8000
, and it seems like Sony TVs always reduce the amplitude, while Samsung TVs reduce the duty cycle ("on time") which makes motion even clearer at low backlight settings. It may be that TVs that dim primarily through PWM will have BFI that changes duty cycle, while TVs that dim primarily through lowering amplitude will do the same to their BFI. Plots of BFI at 100%, 50% and 0% backlight are shown here
for the Sony X900E, here
for the X850E, and here
for the Samsung MU8000.
I currently have a VIZIO M70-C3
. I have been happy with it, but it lacks HDR. Most of the content I'm currently watching has limited HDR (cable TV, streaming, Blu-ray) but I do have a UHD Blu-ray player. I am restricted in my size, and can't have anything bigger than 70". Since this Sony TV is available in 70", do you think it's really worth upgrading from my current VIZIO M70-C3? Thanks.
The Sony X690E
isn't much better than the Vizio M70-C3
, besides the HDR support. And even though the X690E supports HDR, it isn't bright enough nor does it have a wide enough color gamut to take advantage of HDR's bright highlights and saturated colors. We strongly recommend saving your money for a mid range TV next year, something like the Vizio M Series 2017
I am interested in the LG OLED TVs. What is the difference between the models? B? C? F? Thanks!
There is very little picture quality difference between the different LG OLED models of the same year, as they all use the same panel. The difference is usually in the physical design and extra features, such as the built in sound bar on the E7
. We recommend buying the cheapest 2016 or 2017 OLED you can find, because the extra features of the higher end models are not worth their substantial price increase. The cheapest OLEDs right now are 2016's B6
which is hard to find now, 2017's B7 which is only found in a few places like Costco, and 2017's C7
which is more widely available but a bit more expensive than the other two.
Does the 60" KD60X690E
have a TV tuner built-in? I have been looking at this TV at my local Best Buy and am also looking to cut the cord on my cable subscription and looking at some HDTV outdoor OTA antennas to get nearby HD channels. I appreciate your help. Thanks!
does feature a TV tuner which will make cutting the cord a bit easier.
The Sony X690E
70" and Sony X850E
65" are both $1500+tax at the moment.
Seating is about 10ft from the television and we have the typical seating arrangement of a 3 person sofa in front of the tv with a 2 person sofa perpendicular to it on one side and a chair on the other.
Mostly watch movies, sports, and some tv shows. Don't care about smart features or gaming performance.
Based on the various tools on your (great) site, I've narrowed it down to the two sets above.
Finally, my question: Is the slightly better picture quality of the X850E worth sacrificing the extra 5" of the X690E?
Or, given the constraints above, should I be looking at a completely different set?
Thank you very much for your help, and again, awesome site.
is indeed better, but mostly only for HDR (wider color gamut and brighter screen). For normal SDR content, the difference isn't big besides the brightness. Therefore, if you have a bright room or plan on watching HDR more in the future, get the 65" X850E. If not, get the bigger X690E
The HDR game mode for my LG B7a has an incredibly dark picture that also crushes black levels. Wide spread error with a recent update that has been confirmed. LG states this is intentional. Compared to standard hdr, game hdr is nearly 1/3 the brightness. This is a major problem, as switching to standard hdr increases input lag significantly.
There are a few ways to brighten up the picture with HDR game mode. The easiest way is to enable dynamic contrast, which helps a good bit. The other way is to switch to the HDR standard picture mode, but to change the icon of the input to the "PC" icon which also enables a low input lag mode.
The detail that you go into to measure the differences between TV sets are exemplary. Gives a wealth of info that usually only geeks would be concerned about. Now on the map, more regular folks are being exposed that more goes into the making of a set than the name on the logo below the bottom of the screen.
Thinking about the updated "lag" measurements, I see that its slightly biased towards 4K viewing/playing. Would there be major hair pulling if you also published a 2k,full hd biased number?
Input lag @ 4k=9.8: Input lag @ 2K=8.8 or input lag 9.8/8.8
I ask because 2k gaming is slightly more relevant even if 4k is possible. Would the additional calculations move the measurement pointer any position at all or am I just thinking it would? Is 2K HDR even possible?
In general, we aim for our review to be able to cover as many users needs while not being so complicated that it is impossible to dissect. Because of this, we show the score for the whole box and categories of testing to give an easy to understand outlook of what to expect from the TV. Fortunately though, each individual component of the box has its own scoring, which while hidden on our main review, can be accessed via our custom rating feature
. Using this tool, you can adjust one of our ratings to adapt them to your needs, or even build an entirely custom one tailored to your preferences from all of our individual review components.
Whenever I try to playback 4k videos using USB it neverworks, so I'm wondering if this TV doesn't support h.264? Is there a specific format I have to use in order to watch 4k videos via USB?
It appears that the SmartCast operating system doesn't support 4k h.264 playback. However, it can play back 4k h.265 (HEVC) files, but it might skip frames with files that have a bitrate above 120 Mbps or so.
Hi, why not do the burn-in test on a newer model OLED since they say they "fixed" / "improved" the problem?
Thank you for your question. Unfortunately, our resources are limited and we couldn't justify the costs of buying an additional LG C7
for this test (we still require our review unit for the rest of the year). While it is true that more modern models might have some features to slow-down image retention and reduce the speed at which it happens, it is our understanding that aging is an inherent limitation of OLED technology that to this day has not been completely solved.
Looking forward to the results of this long term test. I was wondering if you felt that there may be a use for taking a picture of the set's in the "off" setting. Some image retention/burn in can be seen when the set is off. As a matter of fact, some cases are more pronounced when the set is off. I know that I would be more irked if I saw an "after-image" when a set was off more so then when it was on because the brightness of an "on" set would blur/conceal/mask the after image. Please consider if you also feel that it may prove valuable.
We don't expect the burn-in to be visible when the TV is off on these TVs due to the nature of how it appears on LCD and OLED TVs. On OLED most specifically, it is due to the pixels in a specific region outputting less light than those surrounding, creating a visible shape due to the contrast.
It's great that you are making this test and also that you have modified to add yellow and cycle off for 4 hours per day.
I also understand you intend to recalibrate to 130 cd/m2 weekly, which will be a nice way to monitor subpixel aging (more aging = higher OLED Light).
You might consider adding a full 8-color rainbow accross the center of the panel - measurable rectangles of White, Black, Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Magenta, Cyan. This would allow you to measure how quickly each of the RGBW subpixels age when different colors are displayed. 100% White measured in the 'Black' rectangle shoul age the least (hopefully not at all); 100% Red measured in the 'Yellow' rectangle should age the most (according to AVS reports) and 100% White measured in the 'White' rectangle should age somewhere between those two extremes (because the white subpixels are ~3 times more efficient that the colored subpixels as they have no color filter).
If you use the White rectangle to recalibrate OLED Light every week, 100% White within the Black rectangle should start creeping up over 130 cd/m2 (or whatever your calibration target is).
Appreciate this effort and looking forward to the results!
Thank you for your great question. Unfortunately, due to our limited resources, we had to limit ourselves to a test that was most applicable to a standard use case. Your proposition is definitely interesting, and it would provide a lot of data about the durability of LG OLEDs, but it would significantly increase the resources required for the test which isn't really feasible for us right now. It however is possible that we execute a similar test sometime in the future. As a small correction, our luminance target is actually 175 cd/m2.
Does this TV have a built in TV tuner? I just want confirmation, because it seems odd that one of the higher end TVs that Vizio sells wouldn't come with something as basic as a tuner. If it indeed doesn't have one, then will any of the digital converter boxes work? Such as this one: Amazon Link
Yes, as most Vizio TVs lack a TV tuner, they have to be marketed as "Home Theater Displays" instead of TVs which is part of how they reduce costs and keep their prices below most of their competition. The tuner you linked should work.
I have checked with my Leo Bodnar and when you turn the tv off and back on again, it turns off game or graphic mode and the lag goes up to 118ms. You have to then go to scene select and go away from game or graphic mode then back to it in order for the lag to lower again to 18.7ms. I thought I would share this because playing games and not knowing why the lag went super high will be very upsetting to people. This is on the newest firmware that you used. Hopefully Sony fixes this!
Thank you for pointing this out. We've added a note to the input lag section of the review to make light of these issues.
I'm pretty sure the 55 inch has a VA panel which would surely change the rating especially for contrast. That being said, how does it stack up to other TVs in this price.
Thank you for your question. We've received a few reports about the 55" European equivalent of the X720E
using a different LCD type, but we haven't been able to confirm this about the US model we've tested. In its price range, the X720E doesn't have the best picture quality available, but its feature set makes it unmatched for sports, TV shows in a brighter environment and for use as a PC monitor.It's also quite good for video games, but TVs like the TCL P607
do even better in that aspect and offer much better picture quality in a dark room.
X720e vs X800E
; comparing motion blur images. Why does the X720E
have vision banding during all motion tests while the X800E looks smooth in its tests? Is that 10bit vs 8bit? Just the way the image was captured? You can see the bands on the ghosting clearly on the second image during the X720E BFI test.
Those horizontal bands are just camera artifacts. The X720E
should have similar motion performance, except when BFI is enabled. The X720E's 60 Hz BFI is better than the X800E's 120 Hz BFI because both have 60 Hz panels, but the X720E's BFI makes it very dim and is not available in game mode.
What TV is the best for gaming and has less image retention?
TVs with VA panels usually have no image retention at all. If you're looking for a 55" TV, the TCL P607
is VA and one of the best TVs for gaming with its very low input lag. For 65" the Sony X930E
is great, and the cheaper X850E
is also very good.
I have the LG C6
oled and after 8 months of heavy usage I am noticing a vertical bar that runs from the top of the panel to the bottom of the panel that is roughly 3-4" wide and just off-center to the right a bit that appears to be brighter than the rest of the panel. It's not a big issue when watching movies and television but it's an eye sore when playing games because it's usually right where my character is, and in any game that is super bright this bar becomes easier to notice. Any ideas as to what could be causing this? I have tried clear panel noise and various stages of use.
This likely isn't burn-in, it sounds like a problem with the system that drives the pixels. Because it's not burn-in it may be covered under warranty.
The primary uses for my TV are watching movies and playing video games. Video games often have a static HUD somewhere on the screen which would be similar to the RTINGS logos you are using for this test. This test is running 20 hrs a day, 7 days a week (140 hrs a week). If I used my OLED TV for an average of 28 hrs a week, would it be fair to say 5 weeks of usage with my TV should show similar results of wear with your LG B6
's in one week? If not, what would be a fair comparison or real-world benchmark?
Unfortunately since our test is a lot more intense than normal usage, because we want to see results more quickly, it's likely that our TVs will show burn-in after fewer total hours than a TV used for four hours a day. As such our test can be considered a worst case for burn-in, and most TVs will take longer to shown burn-in than ours. How much longer we unfortunately can't say.
First, your website is fantastic. I'm liking the improvements that you guys are making and you have became my first and only site I come to check out televisions.
I've been looking to purchase the LG C7, but using my TV for gaming I'm scared that I will get a health bar or a video game logo burned into my TV. Do you have any suggestions on the amount of time someone should play a game before switching to something else that doesn't have the static image? And also on your 9/14 update there was a mention of permanent image retention. Will you be providing photos of this? Thanks and keep up the great work.
Thank you, glad to hear you find the site helpful!
There's not really a breakpoint for how long you can play before it's best to switch to something else. We have had one user send us pictures of a game HUD burned in on his screen, but many other gamers happily use their OLEDs without issue. We'll know more though as the burn-in test progresses. In particular it will be very interesting to see if our solid pattern that disappears every few hours takes more total on-screen hours to burn in than our solid image that's on screen constantly. This will answer whether there will be less burn-in if you space out your game time or do it all in one go.
We post all seven of our photos every week, though sometimes things are more noticeable in person. Burn-in will likely be most visible on the red slide photo.
Add me to the list of people who have are sorely disappointed by the reliability of this product. In less than 2 months, I got a nasty line defect on my P65.
We're sorry to hear that. Such problems can unfortunately happen to all LED TVs. It's unknown whether this model has problems more frequently than other TVs, but we'll post every case we hear of in the Q&A section here for everyone to see.
I can already see some permanent image retention in the purple uniformity slide from the week 1 tests, in the top right corner. The 'R' of the Rtings logo is already visible to me. Looks like by week 2, you can notice on the red slide as well, and more prominently in the purple slide.
I play a lot of video games, and am looking to jump in to OLED. Currently, the B6
/B7 are your highest rated and most recommended TV for video games. However, it looks like permanent image retention is a very real issue for OLED, especially regarding static elements, of which most video games have (Health bars, Ammo, etc.).
Will OLED continue to be recommended for gaming, given these permanent image retention problems?
Yes, there is what appears to be permanent retention on the logos in the corners. For the time being, we will still recommend OLEDs for gaming as they still offer a clear performance advantage over LCDs due to their instant response time and exceptional picture quality. We will still make sure advise our readers about their durability limitations which can cause these issues. At the current state of our test, we consider this retention to be minor since it will seldom be seen with normal usage and it requires having the same static content on-screen for hundreds of hours for it to appear.
It may be useful for the test pattern to include some black side-bars (to show the effect of displaying old 4:3 content). Some of the burn-in seen may be due to stress on the row & column addressing transistors (as opposed to the pixel transistors, etc.), and there may be a difference in the row vs column transistors that would not show up in the top/bottom side-bars.
While true that it would be interesting, due to the burn-in of OLEDs being almost entirely due to the aging of emissive components in the OLED which reduces its brightness output (looking at sub-pixels through a microscope, we should notice a few "holes" that form where parts of the OLED stop emitting light), we expect letterboxes to be representative enough to draw a conclusion of what it would look like with pillarboxes. It is true that uneven TFT output can cause issues, but these are most apparent during manufacturing and less prone to degradation over time.
The only thing I'm concerned about with this TV is the image flicker. Everything else looks fine. This TV will be used primarily in a bright room, so I doubt the backlight is ever going to go below 80 or possible even 90. If my understanding is correct, when the backlight is higher, it tends to reduce or nearly eliminate the flickering altogether. The motion blur rating on this TV is excellent, so I probably won't use the 'Clear Motion' (BFI) setting. That having been said, do I have anything to worry about? Everything else looks like it should be just fine for me, and I've never gotten headaches from anything like this before. So, does it sound like it will be noticeable or a problem for me?
If you've never gotten headaches from flickering screens, it is likely that the flicker of the Vizio P won't be an issue for you. Most people don't notice a 120 Hz flicker, and it's even less noticeable at higher brightness settings on the P Series due to the long duty-cycle of the flicker.
I realized after reading through the review a little closer that, at the end, it says that the 55" version has an IPS panel. I'm not opposed to this even if the contrast is a bit lower, however, I was wondering if the motion handling will be similar to the other VA panels of the 65" and 75" TVs. The motion handling is excellent on those TVs. Will the 55" IPS panel be comparable? Also, will this effect anything else besides viewing angle and contrast, like flicker, input lag, etc.?
Unfortunately, it's impossible for us to comment on the motion performance of the IPS variant without testing it. The IPS variant should still have the Clear Action feature. We don't expect the input lag to be any different.
Can you please publish the basic Brightness/Contrast/OLED-Light (or equivalent) settings as you recalibrate each week?
It would also be great if you could take a reading from within the 100%/100% Top Left pattern from some semi-consistent point (100% red if there is a big-enough spot, perhaps centered on the top part of the white 'R' if there is not). While your weekly recalibration is presumably going to be using the center of the screen where pseudo-random content is displayed, readings from anywhere within the Top Left logo would provide some quantitative measure of the degree of accelerated aging associated with bright static (non-random) content... A weekly 100% white measurement from within the black letterbox bars would also be interesting (even if impossible to do without engaging ABL) - in theory, the black letterbox bars should age more slowly than the rest of the screen and so 100% white measurements should slowly increase as you recalibrate week-by-week...
Thank you for your request. We've started adding the current backlight setting in our weekly updates at the top of the article. Since our weekly measurement procedure already takes about 4 hours, we'll do a more extensive set of measurements about every quarter or so. Both of these measurements would bring interesting data, so we'll try to include them in our more extensive analysis procedure.
I really like this ongoing test. It would be nice if you could give a short statement on your findings/noticeable changes week to week. I'm viewing on a mobile phone, so it's hard for me to notice any changes.
We will from now on, thanks for the tip!
Can you clarify the difference between 120 Hz CRC (CMI) SRS depending on the brand and just plain old 120 Hz. I know there is a difference. Also are there any 4k TVs that put out true 120 Hz in 4k on HDMI inputs?
Most Hz advertising numbers are meaningless marketing numbers, as detailed in our fake refresh rate article
. Most high end TVs have 120 Hz real refresh rates, while budget TVs have 60 Hz real refresh rates, as discovered in our testing. Backlights can have a variety of different PWM flicker rates, however flicker is usually undesirable. Few TVs can accept 120 Hz input over HDMI, and no 2017 or older TV can accept 4k @ 120 Hz over HDMI because it uses more bandwidth than HDMI 2.0 can provide. However almost all 120 Hz TVs have motion interpolation that can interpolate lower fps content up to 120 fps, at the cost of some artifacts and more input lag.
I'm curious about flicker effects when using a TV as a monitor and for sports. When using a TV as a monitor, I plan on doing the snap-to-corners to effectively have quad 24.5" 1080p displays. I am looking at two of your highest overall rated 49" options, the Sony X720E
and the Samsung MU6500
. Based on your reviews, it appears this is a major reason of the Sony's higher score for use as a TV monitor. First, the Samsung flickers at 120Hz which makes images blurry, while the Sony can enable 120Hz BFI to clarify motion. Can you explain this in more detail? What is the difference between 120Hz BFI and 120Hz flicker? Second, the Samsung review mentions changing settings to improve fast-moving content while also increasing flicker. How would enabling these settings change the flicker rating? How would this different flicker rating (if any) compare to Sony's ratings as default vs. with optimized settings? Third, for a screen this large as a monitor for a single person, how important is curve?
Very good questions. We recommend the Sony X720E
, for a few reasons. Our flicker box score is designed around the philosophy that the TV should not have flicker by default, but should be able to add flicker via Black Frame Insertion (BFI) for those who do want it. Sony usually does this extraordinarily well by having no PWM flicker by default, but the ability to add 60 Hz or 120 Hz BFI flicker as desired; while Samsung TVs usually have 120 Hz PWM flicker nearly all the time, and their BFI setting makes the flicker more severe and changes it to 60 Hz or 120 Hz depending on input. There is no fundamental difference between PWM flicker and BFI, but BFI usually has stronger flicker.
Adding flicker always reduces persistence based motion blur, but if you play content that doesn't exactly match the flicker frequency there will be double image artifacts, which look like this, because multiple backlight flashes happen per frame. For PC monitor use we generally recommend no flicker, because people often watch 24 Hz and 30 Hz movies and TV shows, which will have double image artifacts with 60 Hz or 120 Hz flicker. The Sony X720E is much better for this than the MU6500. If you play a lot of video games however then 60 Hz flicker will be very beneficial. Both the X720E and MU6500 can do 60 Hz BFI equally well.
The curve is important for single person because it reduces the viewing angle of the edges of the screen. On a flat TV with a VA panel, like the Samsung MU6300, the edges of the screen will look washed out if you sit at a typical PC monitor distance. The curve of the MU6500 helps to alleviate this. The Sony X720E doesn't need a curve because it uses an IPS panel with wide viewing angles, so the edges of the screen don't look washed out.
I love reading your website, and I admire your passion for even small details. I use your website as a cornerstone when selling tellys where I work. My problem is, I bought an LG C6, and I can see burn in, like an LG logo, and the palm trees which is the standard background picture for the LG TVs. I've tried the clear panel noise feature at least 5 times, but it does not have an effect. I love the TV, and it was the very last one of it, it was a shop display, and I don't want to get a refund as I want to keep the telly. Is there any way I can fix this burn in?
Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate your help!
Unfortunately it is unlikely that it is possible to fix the burn-in on your display. Your best option may be to display normal varied content for a while, and after some time (it may be months) the display may wear evenly so the burn-in is less noticeable. We hope to investigate this more in the coming months.
Hi, I am looking for 55 inch television primarily for News, Sports, Kids videos (youtube). I have a home theatre for movies, so wont be using the TV much for movies. I will need a good viewing angle as I will be mounting it on fireplace and viewing it an angle. I am confused between Sony X720E
, LG 7700, Vizio P series (55 inch is IPS). Which one would you suggest ?
Since we unfortunately have not tested the IPS variant of the Vizio P, we cannot really comment on its performance. Overall though, it's tough to find a better TV than the X720E
for the types of content you plan on using it with, and it is a safe choice. If you can still find it, the Sony X700D
from last year is also a great option, and it might be a little cheaper than the X720E.
I see that this tv has an IPS panel, whereas the other new Sony, the KD-60x690e has a VA panel. Would the VA panel help any of the spots where this one falls short? I.E. - Contrast, HDR peak brightness, Black Uniformity and Color Gamut?
Since they are both budget-oriented TVs, we do not expect the X690E to have a wider color gamut or higher brightness than the X720E
as these are not particular shortcomings of IPS type LCDs. The contrast and black uniformity will most likely be significantly better though, at the expense of the very wide viewing angle the X720E sports.
From the Sony X900E
review, "The Sony X900E has some image retention, which is pretty unusual for a TV with a VA panel. The retention is really faint and not as strong has seen on some IPS TVs." I think this would be a great TV to add to your testing because of its measured results.
The models in the burn in test were chosen because they had average behavior for TVs of their type, so the results measured on them can be considered fairly accurate for any TV of their type. Because the X900E
is an unusual case, any results we measure will only be accurate for it and similar unusual VA TVs.
This will be an awesome test in terms of the panel integrity and if they can withstand the struggle they will be going through! However, the only premium tv on here is the OLED. im surprised you haven't included the Q7
from Samsung in this test, or even an MU8 or 9. Would be cool if there were anything to happen to tvs that can produce an expanded color spectrum.
Thanks for contacting us. The main idea of our test was to test the different panel technologies (VA, IPS, and OLED) and as such, the price of the TV themselves did not play a role in the selection. But it is true that right now OLED TVs goes for a premium price, but this is mainly because the technology is newer and the manufacturing price are higher than let say VA or IPS. And on a side note, the main technology that is being used in the Q7
, MU or KU series is basically the same, even though Samsung is trying to make it sound much different than what it is in reality.
You guys are doing an awesome job! Love the reviews, only ones I trust.
I'm debating between this tv, the Sony X850e, and Samsung MU8000. One of the biggest problems for me with the Vizio is the upscaling of lower resolutions, as a large proportion of what we watch is Dish Network, at least for now. Most of the channels on Dish are 1080i, with a few being 720p. According to your reviews, upscaling of 720p is not great, a bit softer than it should be, but 1080p upscaling is good. So which category would 1080i channels fall into? And is the upscaling of 720p (and maybe 1080i) bad enough to not recommend buying this tv over the others, if that's the majority of content watched? Also, is there any noticeable difference in upscaling between the Sony and Samsung? Thanks!
You're welcome, happy to help!
Vizio's upscaling is the only one that's significantly different than the rest, as it's noticeably softer in some areas and more jagged in others. All other brands can be considered equal. 1080i should upscale the same as 1080p, so the Vizio will look great. Vizio's upscaling isn't generally a dealbreaker unless most of the content you watch is 720p or less and you're sensitive to upscaling. Of those three our recommendation order would be Vizio P Series 2017 (or 2016), Sony X850E, Samsung MU8000.
I wanted your recommendation on Factory Refurbished TVs. I am looking to buy a 55 inch 4k UHD TV with 120Hz 'effective' refresh rate. I found a factory refurbished TV which was about 200$ cheaper than a new one. Do you think it's OK to invest in it or may I end up with problems with the TV?
Factory refurbished TVs are often very good quality, so we usually recommend them if they're ~30% cheaper. If the price difference is less than that it's up to personal preference if the added risk and reduced warranty is worth it. You can also look at our 'Recommended if Under' prices to see if it's good value at that price. Note that 120 Hz 'effective' refresh rate and similar marketing numbers are meaningless and can be ignored.
Lots of info out there. I am considering the Z9D
in the 75". OLED in the 77" is twice the money. At $8900 versus 13000-17000, is the 75" Z9D a good choice for general, overall viewing?
is great for overall viewing, it's incredibly bright which is great for bright rooms and HDR highlights, and it has amazing local dimming, one of the best we've ever seen. It's not quite as good overall as the A1E
OLED, but it's great value for those who don't need the absolute best. If you want even better value, the 75" X900E
is half the price of the Z9D, and though it is a little worse overall it's still great for general usage.
I recently bought the Samsung UE55MU6179 TV after reading the review of the MU6300 on your website, as I thought it also featured a VA panel from Samsung, Innolux, Sharp, AUO or whichever the manufacturer.
To my surprise I found out that Samsung provided my size with a PLS panel from BOE. Here is a picture from the secret service menu. It looks like Samsung does ship the MU6170 series with a VA panel for all the sizes but the 55".
Just wanted to point that out. I am not sure whether I will take the smaller 50" panel as I found out that the 55" PLS still fulfills my needs.
Very confusing and disappointing strategy by Samsung UE.
Have a nice day and thanks for the reviews.
Thank you for contacting us. We only test US models so unfortunately don't know what differences exist with regional variants. This information will help other readers though.
Could you reexamine the 480p upscaling test for this TV? While the 720p upscaling does look ok for this TV the 480p image is much worse than any other TV that you have tested. The 480p image has the worst scaling artifacts I have seen in the rope line and the detail just isn't there. There is no way you can justify giving this Tv a higher score than the Vizio P-series for the 480p resolution.
Just compare the two images. If anything give them the same score at least. However, I really don't see how you think this TV is equal to all of the other TVs at 480p and better than the Vizio P-series at that resolution. Your own pictures do not justify the rating that you gave this TV for the 480p upscaling test.
Thank you for contacting us. We took some pictures of both TVs playing a DVD movie (480p) and focussed as much as possible and without having too much visible moire, to show the most details possible in the final upscaled image on both TVs. As you can see on both pictures, the TCL C807 does smooth out straight lines a bit more than the Vizio P Series 2017 and the image is also a bit less noisy, but this is a bit less visible on the test picture. We did a side by side comparison with a HDMI switch, and we came to the conclusion than the TCL C807 still looks a bit better than the Vizio.
Vizio P Series 2017
This is a very similar result as the test we did, comparing the TCL P607 upscaling to the Vizio P Series 2016. As you can see in the picture above.
Vizio P Series 2016
Can you help explain the difference between the QLED 9F vs. 8F or 7F? (Actually not sure if the 8 comes in an F or only curved). Money is not so much the issue, but not sure if the 9 series really is that much better than the 7, or if it is just a marketing gimmick - I don't need to buy the most expensive one just because it is the most expensive, if it doesn't provide significantly more value. Thanks, Zach
All the QLED models are more alike than different. Except for the metal back, the Q7F
and Q8F are essentially the same performance. The Q9F
is also mostly the same, but it can get a little brighter and has slightly better local dimming (although nothing to write home about). Because of this, we would only recommend getting the Q7F in Samsung's QLED series of LCD TVs.
Is TCL indeed going to come out with a 65" version of the P607
? I've been thinking I might jump on the 4k bandwagon at black friday if it is available. With no hint of any release news, however, I'm starting to think maybe I should get a 65" Hisense H8C
before they're gone. Selling for about $900 at BestBuy right now.
TCL has officially announced that the 65" P607
has been cancelled, and will instead become a new TV next year. The Vizio M Series 2017
is a good alternative, and has better picture quality than the H8C
although it is a little more expensive. We recommend the M Series 2017, but the H8C is a decent alternative.
Does it support 1080p @ 120Hz @ 4:4:4 chroma?
Yes, the TV showed 4:4:4 color properly at 1080p @ 120Hz on both the HDMI ports tested (HDMI 1 and 5), and can be assumed to do so for the other ports.
Is it correct that the 2016 Vizio P series has a contrast ratio of ~5600 but the 2017 Vizio P
series only has a contrast ratio of ~4600? I have observed both models on display and the 2016 seems definitely to have better picture quality. I am deciding which to buy and am leaning toward what seems to be the better TV which is the 2016 C1 rather than the 2017 E1 seemingly due to the better contrast ratio.
The 2017 P series has been confirmed by Vizio to be the same hardware as the 2016 P series, just with newer firmware, and our tests confirm this. The contrast ratio difference is likely due to panel variance, the same variance as between two different units of the same year. The difference in contrast isn't very visible in person, both have great native contrast. We recommend buying whichever is cheapest; if both are equal then buy the 2017 as it has newer firmware out of the box.
I have been through multiple P75s that were DOA or had portions of the full-array local dimming backlights not working. On the working set I did get, there seems to be big issues with banding. Watching hockey, football or games where the background is one color, shows vertical bands when panning. Has the 2017 model or Vizio fixed these quality issues?
We're sorry to hear about your QA troubles. The 2017 model has been confirmed by Vizio to have the same hardware as the 2016 model, just with newer firmware. It's possible they've improved their QA in the past year. We noticed no such issues on our 65" 2016 or 2017 P series units.
Watching the news causes permanent image retention that the clear panel noise feature cannot fix. I have had mine since Nov 2016, by Aug 2017 there is burn in that clear panel noise cannot remove. I have tried the pixel fix available on YouTube for 9 hours to no avail. LG knows about this issue, and does not cover it under warranty. I do not recommend spending $2000 to $10,000 on an LG OLED. Basically the C6
I bought is going straight to the TRASH where it belongs.
We're sorry to hear about your C6
, we've received emails from OLED users with permanent burn-in but it's usually in extreme cases such as TV store display models or video game HUD burn-in after long term use. We're currently running a long term burn-in test to investigate this, see here
Don't waste your money on any LG OLED TV, they do not last long, the motion is not smooth, it blurs and jutters and is prone to permanent burn-in (permanent image retention) - LG does not cover this under warranty.
While OLED TVs are better than nearly all LED TVs overall, they do have some weaknesses as you mentioned. Their near instant response time can make low frame rate content appear more stuttery because there is less blur between frames. LG's 2016 OLED TVs had some issues with 24p judder, but their 2017 TVs do not. About the permanent burn-in, we have received some emails from people who have experienced permanent burn-in, though it is rare during normal usage. We are currently running a long term burn-in test for a year, to see under what conditions permanent burn-in can occur, see here
I just purchased this TV and I can't get it to run @ 4K 60 HZ with my PC. I tried all three HDMI inputs, and the icon is set to 'computer' Running 4k @ 30 HZ has a ton of input lag and when I change the resolution to 4K 60HZ the screen turns green and purple. Is there something I can do to get 60HZ to work?
It might be due to the TV's HDMI's settings being set to HDMI 1.4 (see our recommended settings
). It also might be due to an issue on the S405
with chroma 4:2:0, This might be what you are experiencing if your graphics card does not support HDMI 2.0 and automatically switches its output signal to fit into the bandwidth constraints of HDMI 1.4. If you do have a PC which supports an HDMI 2.0 output, this might also be due to your cable not supporting the full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. 4k 30hz fits within older the older HDMI 1.4 interface, but HDMI 2.0 is required for 4k 60hz with chroma 4:4:4 for PC use.
It is a shame your logos don't have any yellow or orange! These seem to be the greatest offenders besides red that will cause burn in on the LG Oled displays. It would be highly recommended you implement any additional yellow or orange logos in your test too check for burn in or severe IR. According to a pol at avsforum the 2016 Oled's are currently at a 16% burn in rate. You need to see this thread as well. www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2804065-oled-screen-burn-photos.html
Thank you for contacting us. We've updated our test pattern to include some yellow.
Nice idea. It's been a topic on many sites, especially when it comes to gaming. Not so much when watching movies but again if someone is a cable news nut. One thing. I don't understand how we will interpret the graphs as it concerns to"image retention". The graphs look more like a brightness stability/longevity test than images that remain.
How do we understand the relationship of the graphs to image retention?
Burn-in on OLEDs unlike Plasma or CRT TVs is not caused by retention or stuck pixels, but instead due to cumulative degradation of the material through usage. This means that over time, OLED TVs will lose brightness across the whole screen progressively. Burn-in is simply a high contrast region of the screen where there was more usage than the surrounding area creating a visible shape. To see the burning-in of the shapes, we'll be taking pictures periodically and will post them on the article.
I have had both versions the 2016 P65 C1 and the 2017 P65 E1. the differences are the 2017 Has XLED Pro which offers Extreme Black Engine Pro and has deeper blacks than the 2016 version which offers Full Array. Also you can change the inputs on the 2017 version by eliminating the inputs you dont use. You can not do this on the 2016 version.
Thank you for your comment. The hardware found in the TVs is supposed to be identical and this can be seen when comparing our two units side by side. We've received a software update on our 2016 Vizio P Series that included the new menu features found on the 2017 model. They can only be accessed using the new remote, however, which can be purchased on its own through Vizio's website.
Great website guys keep up the good work!
Is the Costco C803 model the same as the C807
Yes, the only difference should be the simpler remote which lacks a 3.5mm jack for private listening and wi-fi direct connection to control the TV without having to point the remote at it. Fortunately, all of those features can be found in the Roku app on Android and iOS.
I'm confused by the viewing angle rating for the TCL S305
... the summary says "Sub-par viewing angle", but the numeric values seem better than most other LCD TVs (46/59/28 degrees). Which is correct?
Our ratings are perceptually scored on the noticeable degradation of the image quality at an angle. Since most LCD TVs perform poorly in this test, it is true that the distribution is skewed down a little bit. In a vacuum of its peers, the S305
does perform better than the average VA Type
LED TVs, but in the grand scheme of things viewing the TV from an angle still offers a sub-par experience and shows more degradation than TVs we consider good.
Looks like all TVs get an 8.0 for 480p upscaling, even this one is getting the same score as the Samsung Q7F
. Is there any plan to evaluate the upscaler quality? I bet Samsung's HDR+ is one of the best.
Upscaling is currently evaluated by eye; we've tried objective ways to measure it in the past, but taking a picture of the screen with a camera adds so much noise that it's difficult to measure the upscaling quality from an image. Not all TVs get an 8.0 in 480p and 720p upscaling, most Vizio TVs get a 7.0 .
Samsung's HDR+ setting shouldn't affect the upscaling, it just changes the brightness and colors of the image to make it look like it was mastered for HDR. Some people might prefer this look, but in general we recommend turning it off as it changes the image from what the content creator intended.
Folks the X930E
is backlit not as per your review above (edge). In fact it is backlit+. See this link
Sony's 'Slim Backlight Drive+' is actually a really cool system whereby the light from the edge-lit LEDs are routed to different zones on the TV using a multi-layer system of diffusers, so it performs like a TV with full array local dimming despite being edge lit. The X930E
actually has better local dimming than the X900E
with full array local dimming (though not many zones). The backlight is still an edge lit backlight, but it's better than almost all other TVs with edge lit backlights.
I just bought the 65" version at Costco (on sale for $1,300, what I think was a very good price) and generally love it but... I have it in a very bright room. Are there any control adjustments you would recommend to help eliminate the reflections?
You can only eliminate the reflections by drawing the curtains and such, but you can reduce how distracting they are by making content brighter. In SDR content this is done by changing the gamma setting to something lower, such as 1.8 . This will make everything brighter except pure white. In HDR content a backlight of 50 gives the brightness intended by the content producer for a dark room (follows the PQ curve); raising the backlight beyond 50 makes HDR brighter than intended for a dark room but better for a bright room. If HDR at maximum backlight still isn't bright enough, you can also lower the gamma to 1.8 .
So a 10 bit panel using HDR10 will only get you 1.07 billion colors, but a 10 bit panel using Dolby Vision will not get you more colors? I can understand not getting 68.7 billion colors because it is not 12 bit, but I don't understand how it could not be more colors on 10 bit with Dolby Vision. Especially if it is a software update.
A native 10 bit panel can only produce 1.07 billion colors (2^(3*10)), no matter the hardware or software running it. Each subpixel can only become one of 2^10=1024 different shades. Actually many TVs have 8 bit panels but use techniques like dithering and FRC to give the appearance of a 10 bit panel, and are virtually indistinguishable from native 10 bit panels. No TV we've ever tested has been able to display more than 10 bit color depth, though theoretically a native 10 bit panel with FRC could display 12 bit color depth.
Is there anything Vizio can do to improve the wide color gamut, or is this a hardware limitation?
It is a hardware limitation, so color gamut will not be improved by firmware updates.
So with the dizzying array of TVs out there, it's hard for a consumer like myself to figure out the differences between similar looking models by Vizio that can be found at one retailer versus another. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a new 4k TV from Costco, but not sure between the Vizio P65-E1
and the LG 65UH7650. Any input you can give me to help make a decision would be greatly appreciated!
We have not tested the LG UH7650, be we expect it to perform similarly to the UJ7700
of 2017, as both have a 60Hz refresh rate and the less accurate RGBW pixel substructure. On that basis, the Vizio P Series is a better choice for almost any use case. It has better picture quality and better handling of motion, making it a superior choice for watching movies and sports alike. You can expect the UH7650 to have a better viewing angle than the P Series due to its IPS panel, but unless you always watch TV from angle, the better picture quality of the P Series will have a greater impact on your viewing experience.
Just wanted to let you know I think there is another fairly large difference between the 2. I have the P605
and it appears, at least currently, that the local dimming feature is disabled when game mode is on for the P605. Also, I had the S405
and the DSE was intolerable so I exchanged it for the 605 and the DSE is significantly improved. That seems to be 1 of 2 things, either the 605 has better uniformity characteristics, or more likely there is maybe be a bit of a panel lottery with TCLs. Love the site and I just wanted to let you guys know so you can continue to help people make informed decisions.
Thank you for your input! The local dimming feature didn't work in game mode for the P607
either until firmware update 7.7.0 (build 4111) which was released on August 1st, 2017. Some people have reported issues with the P605 not being on the latest software even when the TV claims it's fully updated. To update to the latest firmware, make sure your TV is connected to the Internet, then go to the Settings menu, select System, then System update and click 'Check now'. Please let us know if there are still issues with Local Dimming in Game Mode after updating.
I think the word should get out that OLEDs can suffer severe burn in. I just bought a used OLED55B6P on ebay and the red channel has severe burn in. I think it must have been a display floor model somewhere.
The images say it all, this is supposed to be a blank red screen, but instead there are massive dark areas.
This is probably not an issue for the common user but it should be known to the used TV market. Since you have a lot of visibility in the TV world I thought you should know.
Thank you for contacting us and sharing these images. We will be performing a long-term burn in test over the course of a year to measure the degradation of various panel technologies over time. Look for news in the coming weeks.
Odd question, the way my TV would be located it is important that I have front speakers. Is that the case with the s305?
Unfortunately, like most TVs available today the TCL S305
has down-firing speakers.
I have been playing quite a bit of Call of Duty Zombies and noticed this on my screen after not playing for 3 days. it is the HUD from the game. I have ran a clear panel noise about 4 times and tried a RGB color video to try and get rid of it but i guess it's burnt in. Do you have any suggestions? The TV is an OLED65B6P.
Thank you for contacting us and showing our readers. Unfortunately it is unlikely to go away completely if the clear panel noise hasn't helped, but may fade slightly over time. Your best bet is to contact LG for a replacement.
Since the Sony Z9 was a 2016 model and a 2017 model would you by chance retesting it to the new standard
Since we tested the Sony Z9D
in 2017 (even though it launched in 2016), it is part of the new test bench and its ratings are accurate to our current test bench.
I recently bought a 2017 Vizio 55" P series. I noticed over the years that Vizio tends to make them with an IPS screen rather than a VA screen. All the other screen sizes have a VA screen. Is there any particular reason for this?
Vizio TVs commonly have one size that uses an IPS panel. The 55" P Series 2017
, P Series 2016
and E Series 2017
, and the 60" M Series 2017
have IPS panels. We're not sure why Vizio does this, but it may be to cut costs, as they may be able to source a cheaper IPS panel at that size than a VA.
I recommend removing positive reviews on this TV. The new firmware update from Vizio caused both my first on and the new replacement that Vizio sent to me to freeze. The second replacement got stuck in the updating cycle and will not even turn on now. It goes to the Vizio symbol and shuts down and then infinitely repeats. Power Cycle and factory reset did not fix the issue. The software update has ruined what was a good TV. I have photos and videos to back this up and case number with Vizio.
We're sorry to hear that you've been having so many problems with the new update. It's a fairly major update that adds built in app support, so it may be more likely to cause problems than smaller updates. Our P Series 2017
and M Series 2017
have both received the update without issue, but our P Series 2016
and E Series 2017
have not received it. If we encounter any problems with Vizio TVs we'll be sure to update their reviews, and potentially lower their Smart Features score to reflect any instability in their software.
I see on Amazon they sell a D100 model for around $200, seems to be the same set minus the smart TV features. Is it the same panel? Will the picture quality and input lag be identical?
The TCL S305
and D100 have very similar picture quality and overall performance, including input lag. The main difference between these models is, as you mentioned, the smart features available on the S305. Our full review of the TCL D100 will be published later this month.
How many TV reviews will be retro-actively scored based on this new model, if any?
All 2017 models are fully converted to the 1.1 Test bench, which means their reviews now reflect all the changes listed above. Reviews for 2016 and earlier TVs still use the older 1.0 Test bench on the review page. However, scores used in the comparison tables and the side by side tool have also been converted to the 1.1 test bench for 2016 and earlier TVs. These scores from older TVs are grayed out and marked with an asterisk (*) to indicate that they may be slightly less accurate than the scores for 2017 TVs.
Hi. I saw that you recently applied a new system on how you rate TVs. Will you be updating the scores for the 2016 OLED TVs? I currently have the C6
and was curious how the score would change. Thank you very much for all the help.
Unfortunately, we won't be updating previous models to the new test bench since we do not have them in our lab anymore and cannot retest them using new methodologies. You can see a converted score using our side by side tool
, which while not perfectly accurate should give a good indication of how the TV would score on our new test bench.
Hello! I love this site and it has helped me in purchasing a television. My concern now is, I just bought a Samsung MU8000
55" to go in the living room of my new apartment. And after reading this, did I make a bad decision, in regards to how you recommend to wait on HDR? Should I return the TV and purchase a cheaper 1080p set for the living room and wait 2 years for HDR?
Your site helped me purchase the MU8000 as it was on sale at BestBuy and it fit my budget perfectly.
is still fairly good for HDR, with its great contrast ratio, decent brightness and wide color gamut. It's a matter of opinion whether it's better to keep it or go with a cheaper 4k TV (like the TCL P607
) and save up for later. 1080p TVs aren't recommended if you have the budget, as there are now many cheap 4k TVs like the TCL S405.
HDR TVs still have a few areas they can improve on. Local dimming has been steadily improving year over year, and should be even better in two years. Another problem that remains with HDR (except HLG) is that it's mastered for a dark room, so it's often too dim when viewed in a bright room. So far only Vizio has given users the ability to drastically brighten everything for bright room viewing, but its possible other manufacturers may do so in the future. Overall, the MU8000 will likely still be a decent HDR TV in two years, so it's a toss up whether it's best to keep it or buy cheaper and save up for future improvements.
Isn't an IPS panel better quality and more expensive than a VA panel?
Not necessarily, for example budget Sony TVs almost always use IPS panels because of their low cost. IPS panels have a great viewing angle but poor contrast, while VA panels have a bad viewing angle but great contrast. We recommend VA panel TVs for most use cases, but if people will often be sitting to the side of the TV and viewing it on an angle we recommend IPS TVs. The premium reputation of IPS comes largely from the PC monitor market, where the viewing angle is needed because you sit far closer to the screen (so the edges don't wash out), and they're used primarily in bright rooms so the contrast is not as much of an issue.
Why don't 2017 Samsung TVs have USB 3.0 ports? Or is USB 3.0 not necessary for 4k videos? Sony and LG are sensitive to this issue.
Nearly all 4k videos should play fine over USB 2.0. Using (http://jell.yfish.us/) test clips we're able to play up to 140 Mbps 4k files on the MU7600
, which is beyond the bandwidth of the UHD Blu-ray spec. 180 Mbps would not play smoothly, but that was probably beyond the sustained bandwidth limit of our humble Kingston USB 3.0 drive. The maximum theoretical bandwidth of USB 2.0 is 480 Mbps, so a very fast USB drive could play even higher bandwidth 4k files.
Do you think OLED TVs will look dim in a bright room?
Even though OLEDs have the reputation of being dim TVs, they are second only to a few high-end Sony LCD TVs and in the same ballpark as the Samsung Q9F
when it comes to real scene peak brightness. They only get dimmer than other TVs when most of the screen is displaying a bright image, but that rarely happens with regular content.
I have noticed that the MU9000
upscales cable, DVDs, and over the air broadcasts better than the KS8000
. The visual artifacting is obvious side by side.
The upscaling is different between the KS8000
, with the 2017 MU9000 producing a slightly softer image than its 2016 counterparts. However, upscaling preferences are subjective, so some people might prefer the 2016 sharper upscaling while others prefer the 2017 softer approach. Because of that subjective aspect, we don't differentiate between them in scoring.
Absolutely love the in depth reviews you all do. In regards to specifically the P55 (IPS) can you recommend it over the M series?
My uses cases are mixed, mostly TV Shows / Movies (mixed SDR / HDR) in the late evening when light is low / dark as well as Xbox One S Gaming.
My biggest point of concern is IPS vs VA and input lag as well as light zones. I momentarily tried a 60UH7700
and was EXTREMELY dissatisfied with the backlight performance, even with local dimming off (light bleed was nasty) it ruined the picture. Should I attribute this to edge lit LED or IPS?
Am I safe to go with the P55 and its IPS panel to gain a wider viewing angle and better local dimming for dark room watching?
If most of your viewing is done in a dark room and from a tight angle in front of the TV, then going for a VA panel is clearly the better choice. IPS becomes a good option if you often have people watching the TV from a wide seating arrangement. However, in a dark room, good contrast is a very important aspect of picture quality, and IPS panels suffer in that situation. The Vizio P Series has much better full-array local dimming than the edge-lit UH7700
, which will help increase contrast, but the IPS version still won't achieve a contrast ratio as high as the VA panel. Overall, since you mostly watch TV when it is dark, the best choice would be a VA panel: the 65" or 75" Vizio P, or any of the Vizio M Series. The M Series is cheaper, but it cannot produce motion interpolation and its local dimming is not as good as the P Series.
On TCL's website and many other websites selling the product, they state that the 40", 43" and 49" versions of the TV have 120Hz refresh rate, but this review seems to state that it only supports 60Hz. Which one is true?
has a 60Hz refresh rate, meaning that a maximum of 60 different frames can be displayed every second by the screen. TCL claims the S305 has a 120Hz 'CMI Effective Refresh Rate', where CMI stands for 'Clear Motion Index', but only the backlight of the TV flickers at 120Hz. The TV still only displays 60 frames per second. TCL are not the only ones to inflate their refresh rate numbers: see our article on fake refresh rates
for more details.
Based on the different ports if you were to hook a PC or Nvidia Shield up it sounds like port 5 is the one to choose. However then you're giving up HDR content. In your experience what was the superior experience?
For PC use, port #5 is definitely the best choice. Input lag is a lot more noticeable when using a mouse as the cursor will feel floaty and innacurate. If you mostly use your shield for more casual gaming and content consumption, it will probably be fine on ports 1 or 2 as the lag is less noticeable with a controller. The P Series's input lag in HDR is still acceptable for less competitive use and the picture quality enhancements are worth trading for in this case.
If you click the "75 button, B&H claims that the TV in this size has been discontinued...
This seems to be a stocking issue with B&H specifically. The 75" model is still available directly through Vizio.
With your update to the S405
review concerning the 4:4:4 color, does that change which mode you would recommend for gaming? For example for HDR gaming on a Xbox One S, would it be better to use the PC mode instead of the gaming mode?
It won't make a difference for console gaming. 4:4:4 is only really important if you plan to use your TV as a PC monitor where you'll read a lot of text.
I just purchased a TV that was on display at Best Buy. The TV has heavy image retention. I am not sure how to get rid of it. I have left the TV off for hours. Today I tried doing a clear panel noise twice in a row and nothing (I am even running one now just in case). Like the previous fellow which included the pictures, my TV has a big LG logo burned in along with some other marks. It's distracting with warm colors. Any suggestions?
Running the Clear Panel Noise feature is a good way to remove image retention, as is watching regular content with lots of movement and bright colors. If the retention is still present after a few days of normal to heavy use, it might unfortunately be permanent. A TV that is on display at a retailer often shows an image with static elements for hours or even days on end at high screen brightness, which is the situation that is most likely to produce heavy image retention.
Will you be testing the 2017 55" model since many of the results will be different since it's an IPS screen.
Unfortunately we only have the throughput to measure one size per model, as testing takes a lot of time. The 55" model is very interesting though, likely one of the best IPS TVs out there, as the great local dimming helps to mitigate the poor contrast ratio of the IPS panel, while retaining its great viewing angles.
I looked at the Vizio website and they did list these features as "new": XHDR Pro™, Ultra Color Spectrum®, 4K Ultra HD and Xtreme Black Engine Pro™. If true did they make any difference from the 2016 model you tested?
Vizio made a statement that the 2017 P series is identical hardware wise to the 2016 models, and most 2016 models have received the latest firmware as well, so the 2016 and 2017 models can be considered identical. The only differences between the two models that we measured are within panel variance (or firmware changes). Vizio has recently been renaming some of their marketing terms, calling their LED TVs XLED, renaming 'Active LED Zones' to 'Xtreme Black Engine Pro', etc, however there has been no hardware change.
Greetings and thank you for providing such an awesome site! I recently purchased a TCL 55" S405
LED Edge-Lit TV. When watching brighter scenes I can see the corners are darker than the rest of the screen and when panning occurs in a bright(er) scene I can see vertical bars throughout the panel. Is this "DSE"? I was looking at getting the 55" P607
to replace my aging Panasonic Plasma but if this is indicative of the TCL brand then I may stay clear.
You're correct, dirty screen effect occurs during slow movement like panning, where the same object looks different as it moves to a different part of the screen. Gray uniformity unfortunately varies between different units, so you may have gotten a bad unit. You can compare to our S405's test photo
to get a rough idea if yours is worse than average. Our TCL P607
unit actually had worse grey uniformity than our S405
. Our Samsung MU7000
unit had quite good grey uniformity for its price, but its picture quality overall is worse than the P607. Unfortunately most LCDs can't hold a candle to the excellent uniformity of a plasma, OLEDs can but are much more expensive.
I have just purchased a TCL 49S405
TV and would like to know where I can get a manual. I would like to know what is the recommended USB to be able to use the pause up to 90 minutes feature and how to do that.
Any USB drive should work for the pause live TV feature if it has at least 16 GB of storage. A good option is the Samsung Fit
, the 64 GB version is especially good value. Unfortunately a full manual for the S405
doesn't seem to exist, just a quick start guide, but TCL does provide articles for some features like pause live TV, see here
Tough question: Knowing that IPS panels don't have "great" contrast, what IPS panel 55" TV under $1000 has the BEST contrast measurements? I'm thinking either Vizio P Series (55" is IPS) or Sony X850D
, but you guys have no measurement for the 55" Vizio.
The best IPS contrast ratios we've ever measured are the LG LH5700
and Sony X850D
, in that order (1418:1 - 1248:1). Out of those the X850D and SJ8500 have the best overall picture quality. An even better option though is the Vizio P Series 2016
or 2017 55". Even though we haven't tested this 55" IPS variant, its great local dimming will likely provide a better experience because it will vastly increase the contrast in most cases, at the cost of some visible blooming.
I see the P607
has great SDR brightness and while understanding the difference between SDR and HDR I am curious about wide color gamut. Do you see better color in SDR if you have WCG? Since most content available is SDR shouldn't wide color gamut and higher SDR brightness greatly improve the picture?
Wide color gamut support doesn't make SDR content look any better, because SDR content isn't mastered to show wide color gamut. You can force a TV to use a wide color gamut for SDR, but this will oversaturate all the colors, making the picture look different than intended and often making people's faces look red. High SDR brightness is great in a bright room or when light is reflecting off the screen, but in a dark room most people will turn down the brightness because it will be blinding.
I'm using the TCL P607
as a computer monitor with a GTX 1070 and I can't enable HDR with 4:4:4 chroma. HDR only works with 4:2:2 chroma. The picture also looks way too dark with HDR enabled. Any solution?
It's a Windows thing, it won't enable HDR when the bit depth is 8 bit, and 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 bit requires more bandwidth than HDMI 2.0 can do. You can often trick Windows into enabling HDR for 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 8 bit by first enabling HDR when in 1080p @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 @ 10 or 12 bit, then switching the resolution to 4k. Also you can often still game in HDR even when Windows isn't set to HDR, because the game will control the TV via exclusive mode. Some video players can also do this.
The picture looks dark in HDR because HDR is meant to be shown at maximum backlight, so non-HDR content shown in Windows will be dimmed to a comfortable brightness. This way HDR and SDR content shown in Windows will have the same average brightness, but the HDR content will be able to show bright highlights. You can make HDR brighter by disabling 'Local Contrast' or enabling 'Dynamic Contrast'.
I will be using the TV at least half the time watching content (movies, TV shows ect.) from my PC connected by HDMI cable. Will the 4:4:4 color issue when connected to PC (that was noted 7/18/2017) affect the viewing enough that this TV would be a bad choice for my situation. If not are there any setting suggestions.
4:4:4 support is functional but only works when used in the TV's PC mode. This just means that you might need to calibrate or re select your settings for that input for movie watching. In general, 4:4:4 is only important when reading text such as when you are using the TV as a PC monitor. For movies and TV shows, it should not cause issues.