HP OMEN MAX 16: Discussion
This page was briefly live and then taken down. Perhaps stock will be in soon? https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/tcl-75-qm-series-4k-uhd-hdr-qled-smart-google-tv-75qm850g-ca-2023/16693219
This TV model is released and available from Best Buy as of May 15th, 2023.
FOMO got his, I’m extremely interested to see how it competes with U8H’s Game/ALLM HDR at 4k/120hz, and if the 240hz is real (no frame skipping) or just motion jargon
Number of votes doubled in less than a week. Seems some tomfoolery going on…
Yeah, a side by side with a G3 and U8H showing stellar performance against both will do that overnight. TCL isn’t coming this year to mess around after being bodied last year with a very meh lineup in U.S.
FOMO’s livestream showed EVERY manufacturer is now officially on notice vs the QM8.
Yeah, a side by side with a G3 and U8H showing stellar performance against both will do that overnight. TCL isn’t coming this year to mess around after being bodied last year with a very meh lineup in U.S. FOMO’s livestream showed EVERY manufacturer is now officially on notice vs the QM8.
Influencers be influencing I guess.
AFAIK, there’s no TV which can do 2160p@240Hz yet. They can do 3840x1080@240Hz though.
Which ever resolution(s) manage 240hz native, whether SDR or HDR, will rank the QM8 to #1 for Gaming/versatility
Even if its most accurate picture performance slightly behind U8H and G3/S95C
I didn’t think we would be seeing this hit the market for at least 3 years. It’s shaping up to be my holy grail TV if it could just match or surpass the U8H’s Game Mode HDR picture.
The product has won our suggestion poll, so we’ll buy and test it soon. Follow this thread for updates!
RTINGS HAS PURCHASED THE QM8, LET’S GO BOYSSSSSS
TCL has launched Q10H in China, which has 1920 zones & 3000 nits for 75 inch and currently sells for ~$1600.
Looking forward to full review! I was really annoyed by awful flickering on C835/R655 and i want to see how PWM flicker will be working in new line-up
Looking forward to full review! I was really annoyed by awful flickering on C835/R655 and i want to see how PWM flicker will be working in new line-up
Just buy the Opple Light Master (really cheap on aliexpress) and you too can measure flicker yourself. Don’t forget to measure your light bulbs, monitors, laptops, etc.
Just buy the Opple Light Master (really cheap on aliexpress) and you too can measure flicker yourself. Don’t forget to measure your light bulbs, monitors, laptops, etc.
It is not so simple. The PWM freaquency is quite high on R655 ( 960Hz). The problem is in very unusual modulation that causes eyes fatigue. I doubt Opple Light Master will be useful in that case.
It is not so simple. The PWM freaquency is quite high on R655 ( 960Hz). The problem is in very unusual modulation that causes eyes fatigue. I doubt Opple Light Master will be useful in that case.
Actually, looking at the graph the frequency is more like 3000hz+ (960Hz is incorrect), I have the Opple meter but I don’t have the TV so I can’t measure it. But you could buy the meter and measure one at the store youself.
Actually, looking at the graph the frequency is more like 3000hz+ (960Hz is incorrect), I have the Opple meter but I don’t have the TV so I can’t measure it. But you could buy the meter and measure one at the store youself.
Rtings say 960Hz and i trust them. Again problem is not in frequency being low. 960Hz is high frequency and there is no any problem with Samsung for example which uses PWM 960Hz. But specific PWM modulation on TCL causes real eye fatigue by itself. How can Opple help in that situation?
To be more clear. I bought C835 (r655 analog) half an year ago for very good price. I knew that TCL uses high pwm frequency in their middle/premium line-up and I was shure judging on my experience with Samsung tvs with 960hz pwm flicker there will be no any trouble with my eyes. But I was wrong. My eyes were tired after just an hour of watching TV. I just couldn’t understand what was happening. Until I saw RTings review with unusual backlight modulation. I had to get rid of that TV. That’s why I’m giving so attention to pwm flicker in TCL 2023 line-up. There’s very interesting models but I’m just afraid to repeat my ugly last experience. I want to compare QM8 pwm graph with r655 to see the difference.
Rtings say 960Hz and i trust them. Again problem is not in frequency being low. 960Hz is high frequency and there is no any problem with Samsung for example which uses PWM 960Hz. But specific PWM modulation on TCL causes real eye fatigue by itself. How can Opple help in that situation?
You don’t have to trust them, just look at the graph and count it, it’s clearly not 960hz. RTings really need to buy the Opple Light Master (it’s cheap only $40), it’ll count the hz for them. Eg: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/innocn/27m2v RTings just says >1000hz now, it’s actually 37,000hz.
The product has arrived in our lab, and our testers will start evaluating it soon.
Both the QM8 and U8K are on my Radar (75 model) I need a solid all- arounder. If I go Oled the S90C looks interesting. They say every 5 years theres a major jump in Tech for TVs, so 2023 is indeed the year.
Don’t suppose I can ask that local dimming be tested in game mode at multiple refresh rates? Game mode is reportedly gimped in terms of local dimming performance, but I and some others are wondering if lower refresh rates improve the performance. Gaming always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to local dimming performance, typically to reduce input latency. But they never implement any options to turn things back on if input latency isn’t your biggest concern. And while you could force filmmaker mode, that reportedly has over 100ms of input latency and there is kind of a limit as to how much can be tolerated.
Don’t suppose I can ask that local dimming be tested in game mode at multiple refresh rates? Game mode is reportedly gimped in terms of local dimming performance, but I and some others are wondering if lower refresh rates improve the performance. Gaming always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to local dimming performance, typically to reduce input latency. But they never implement any options to turn things back on if input latency isn’t your biggest concern. And while you could force filmmaker mode, that reportedly has over 100ms of input latency and there is kind of a limit as to how much can be tolerated.
It definitely doesn’t hurt to ask, we just can’t make any guarantees. Our testers do consider all the suggestions in these threads though, so we’ll definitely consider it once we test this product!
For the guys testing, Dolby vision IQ had some wonky motion (When watching Dolby Vision content) turning it to Dolby vision bright or dark you can turn off the motion settings that are causing issues
For the guys testing, Dolby vision IQ had some wonky motion (When watching Dolby Vision content) turning it to Dolby vision bright or dark you can turn off the motion settings that are causing issues
Thanks for letting us know! We’ll make sure oyr testers keep this in mind while we test the unit we purchased!
Just an FYI about an issue some of us are having, especially with the 85" (this is ripped from an email I sent TCL):
While watching HDR10 or Dolby Vision content with Local Contrast (dimming) set to “High”, I have noticed global brightness instability in certain lower-light scenes. It is particularly present after camera cuts between scenes of varied (even if slightly different) brightness and manifests as a slow (1-2 second) ramp down or up in brightness throughout the entire image (somewhat like a dynamic iris on a projector).
Cuts to darker scenes lead to a noticeable, global reduction in brightness, whereas cuts to brighter scenes seem to gradually boost brightness over the course of a second or two. In other situations, the brightness appears to fluctuate up and down within a single shot. Unsurprisingly, dialog sections tend to be the most distracting as they tend to frequently cut back and forth between characters. Please note that I have confirmed all intelligent/eco settings are disabled and the instability seems to disappear if Local Contrast is set to “Low” (but of course contrast suffers greatly). I have also compared the behavior with displays from other vendors where no instability was observed.
With the help of a few others, I have started to track scenes that trigger the issue here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fbJnlOXsY_2qurg6KlJL4YXeoluTPSxvFTVac3qDDCQ/edit?usp=sharing
Example in action (note the 0:58 through 1:16 timeframe): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnFD1i4cnps
Steps to reproduce:
Comments about referenced scenes:
I have the 75qm850g and love the set. I am not experiencing any dimming issues like the other user listed. Here are some videos and the use of game dashboard as well https://youtu.be/XmK40PDCMyM
I have the 75qm850g and love the set. I am not experiencing any dimming issues like the other user listed. Here are some videos and the use of game dashboard as well https://youtu.be/XmK40PDCMyM https://youtu.be/7gR7qVbYQSw https://youtu.be/12M1Hc0_F64
Just out of curiosity I noticed you’re playing this with a firecube. Is that firecube outputting HDR10 or actual Dolby Vision? When my TCL 600 series kicks in Dolby vision I have a popup when I first play it on the right side of the screen telling me as much. I don’t think I saw that in your video. Maybe they aren’t doing that anymore. If they are you might be seeing HDR10 which isn’t variable. Could explain the difference.
Just out of curiosity I noticed you’re playing this with a firecube. Is that firecube outputting HDR10 or actual Dolby Vision? When my TCL 600 series kicks in Dolby vision I have a popup when I first play it on the right side of the screen telling me as much. I don’t think I saw that in your video. Maybe they aren’t doing that anymore. If they are you might be seeing HDR10 which isn’t variable. Could explain the difference.
The issue is present on all forms of HDR, at least for the 85”
Just out of curiosity I noticed you’re playing this with a firecube. Is that firecube outputting HDR10 or actual Dolby Vision? When my TCL 600 series kicks in Dolby vision I have a popup when I first play it on the right side of the screen telling me as much. I don’t think I saw that in your video. Maybe they aren’t doing that anymore. If they are you might be seeing HDR10 which isn’t variable. Could explain the difference.
It’s dolby vision
Can’t wait to see this review. I actually just received my 75" QM8 and am setting it up tonight but I have a decent return window on it. :P Was debating between this and the U8H, but the TCL just seemed like it has better features/offerings. Splurged for the 5 year geek squad coverage to cover any panel or longevity issues.
The issue is present on all forms of HDR, at least for the 85”
After looking into this more on avsforums they are all bk Laming it on Dolby vision content. Apparently the TCL is mishandling the adjustable metadata in the DV content. Supposedly theres a beta firmware that addresses it. Emailing tclsocial@tcl.com with the issue and Mac address and SN will get the beta sent to you. Read on st avs:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/tcl-2023-qm8-mini-led-google-tv-owners-thread.3275454/page-65
Just an FYI about an issue some of us are having, especially with the 85" (this is ripped from an email I sent TCL): While watching HDR10 or Dolby Vision content with Local Contrast (dimming) set to “High”, I have noticed global brightness instability in certain lower-light scenes. It is particularly present after camera cuts between scenes of varied (even if slightly different) brightness and manifests as a slow (1-2 second) ramp down or up in brightness throughout the entire image (somewhat like a dynamic iris on a projector). Cuts to darker scenes lead to a noticeable, global reduction in brightness, whereas cuts to brighter scenes seem to gradually boost brightness over the course of a second or two. In other situations, the brightness appears to fluctuate up and down within a single shot. Unsurprisingly, dialog sections tend to be the most distracting as they tend to frequently cut back and forth between characters. Please note that I have confirmed all intelligent/eco settings are disabled and the instability seems to disappear if Local Contrast is set to “Low” (but of course contrast suffers greatly). I have also compared the behavior with displays from other vendors where no instability was observed. With the help of a few others, I have started to track scenes that trigger the issue here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fbJnlOXsY_2qurg6KlJL4YXeoluTPSxvFTVac3qDDCQ/edit?usp=sharing Example in action (note the 0:58 through 1:16 timeframe): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnFD1i4cnps Steps to reproduce:
- Set up QM8 in a darkened room (watching in a dark setting will make brightness fluctuations more noticeable)
- Locate HDR10 or DV content with low-light scenes (see the linked spreadsheet above)
- Disable all intelligent picture features
- In Picture Settings > Brightness Settings, set DV mode to DV Dark or Bright and leave all other options default. In HDR10, select Movie mode and disable all additional processing features except for Local Contrast, which should be at “High” Observe global brightness behavior across the various scenes Comments about referenced scenes:
- It may be helpful to start the content somewhat before the referenced timestamp to ensure the image/stream has fully stabilized
- Silo S1E5 was provided to me as an example by another owner who observed brightness instability throughout the episode.
- The scenes from Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace are somewhat more subtle in terms of brightness fluctuation, but they’re reliably repeatable.
- I attempted to film the behavior in action while watching the Phantom Menace, but the camera’s sensor struggles to capture the effect and watching on a smaller display isn’t ideal.
- Setting Local Contrast to “Low” clears the issue, but raises black levels significantly. Setting Black Level to 51 or 52 seems to shift the dimming threshold to improve some dark scenes, but mid-dark scenes are still affected.
Hoping this gets addressed in the review if the brightness fluctuations are not fixed by the time it drops. Perhaps that would encourage TCL to prioritize fixing this bizarre issue that really brings down an otherwise incredible display.
After looking into this more on avsforums they are all bk Laming it on Dolby vision content. Apparently the TCL is mishandling the adjustable metadata in the DV content. Supposedly theres a beta firmware that addresses it. Emailing tclsocial@tcl.com with the issue and Mac address and SN will get the beta sent to you. Read on st avs: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/tcl-2023-qm8-mini-led-google-tv-owners-thread.3275454/page-65
Just so we’re clear, I am one of the ones driving the push to fix it on AVS. I think it is just that so much streaming content is DV, many blame it on that. It actually has nothing to do with the dynamic metadata and is present in all HDR material.
The good news: TCL has now acknowledged the issue and is supposed to be working on an update to address it. They’ve requested MAC address and Serial Number info from a few of us and indicated they may use it to push updates to our devices, likely as part of beta testing.
Just so we’re clear, I am one of the ones driving the push to fix it on AVS. I think it is just that so much streaming content is DV, many blame it on that. It actually has nothing to do with the dynamic metadata and is present in all HDR material. The good news: TCL has now acknowledged the issue and is supposed to be working on an update to address it. They’ve requested MAC address and Serial Number info from a few of us and indicated they may use it to push updates to our devices, likely as part of beta testing.
Thanks for your drive to help make it better for everyone instead of shrugging it off as a bad buy and just returning it.
Just a heads up to everyone following this: TCL pushed an update to my TV (from V276 to V283 software version). Initial impressions are that the brightness issues have been fixed.
Just got my update from tcl.. awesome customer service. Seems to fix dimming issues I had
Is this model using the new MediaTek MT9653 Soc? I heard that new chip might have lower input lag with interpolation enabled in game mode (maybe even playable?)
Does anyone know the dimming zone count on the 75inch model? It looks much better than the 65-inch and just as good as the 85-inch to be quite Frank.